He accepts the tea with a quiet thank you, and wonders if tea is a general cultural Thing, at the main Temple. Kanan has mentioned certain blends reminding him of his own master - it's one of the few specific personal things Kanan had ever brought himself to mention about Master Billaba.
"Uncertain, still," he admits, easily enough. "I don't know what's uh, wise, or safe to tell you about from my time. Partly because there's so much I don't know about this time."
That he's on a Star Destroyer isn't helping. He was vaguely aware that the general design was Republic before it was Empire, but it really is eerily similar to the ships he's used to seeing as the enemy.
It isn't lost on him the way Ezra seems on high alert around the troopers. Given their straight-backed march and snappy salutes, that sort of thing would be intimidating to any civilian that didn't spend so much time around them. Obi-Wan takes some measure of comfort in it, as paradoxical as that is. The Jedi of this time weren't meant to be soldiers, but spending every waking day and night for months on end with his battalion, bleeding with them, have led to some interesting side effects.
He takes a seat across from the boy, knees splayed comfortably as he braces on his thighs and laces his fingers together.
"Well given that nothing I tell you should really be news, is there something you want to ask me?" There's an almost teasing lilt to his voice as his eyebrows hike up, gently trying to coax Ezra out of his defensive shell.
He's been able to confirm a few basic facts, like - Palpatine is already Chancellor. What can he possibly do that won't make things play out as bad, or worse, when the Sith already have that much power? When all the troopers around him - around so many of the Jedi - are unwilling tools? He doesn't even really know how the chips the Kanan and Rex mentioned in passing work. Just that when the Purge had started, the clones were programmed to follow orders.
He thinks Ahsoka and Rex had managed to save each other somehow, but he'd never asked details about that, either.
But - there's a place to start. Although, he doesn't even know when she became Master Skywalker's padawan, much less when she left the Order, or why.
That's an interesting place to start, but seems like a safe spring board. Despite himself, he can't help being pleased to hear whatever future Ezra comes from, her name is still known. She's a strong young padawan, but in the pit of him always sits the fear that she or Anakin will be lost to the war.
"Yes, she's currently deployed with her Master, Anakin Skywalker." There's obvious warmth in his voice and expression talking about them. "With luck we'll all rendezvous back in Coruscant not long after our battalion arrives. Have you met Ahsoka?"
Ezra visibly relaxes a little, at Master Kenobi's reply matching what he knows.
"Yes. She taught me a little. Enough not to lose a limb the first time I needed to wield two 'sabers in real combat," Ezra tells him, breaking into a small smile.
"She ran missions alongside me and my master for a while. Saved my life more than once."
His smile drops away at the memory of that last time she'd done that. He doesn't say 'we're pretty sure she's dead', or 'I think the Sith that killed her may have been her former master'.
If Obi-Wan needed a reason to trust Ezra, this bit of information definitely tips the scales in his favor. And some part of him can't help glowing with pride, knowing his grand-padawan has followed in the footsteps of her Master to teach other younglings how to wield a saber. In his mind, he can't separate the concept that she would be doing so without also passing on the teachings of the Jedi — no matter how unusual this boy's training apparently seems to be.
"I'm not sure there is a better person you could learn Jar'Kai from outside of Coruscant," She's become incredibly adept at the form, something he can attest to himself having sparred with her as her skills have grown. "I have a feeling she's much younger than you will remember now."
"That'll be weird," Ezra muses, a hint of a smile revived by the warmth he can feel from Master Kenobi. It's good to see that the fondness Ahsoka always showed when she spoke of her master's master was reciprocated.
"I recognized you because Kanan had a recording of you on a holcoron. And-" He sorts through how to tell this story, but it feels strangely important to get across. "I was an orphan on Lothal. Kanan and the rest of the team he was working with, I thought they were just smugglers and I tried to steal a box of the shipment, thinking it was something valuable. Got caught up in their mission and they brought me aboard their ship. I felt the holcron, went looking for it, and took it. The mission went even more sideways from there-"
He closes his eyes and breathes out. "I was alone in a cell, thinking there was no way these people I'd just met would come back for me. The troopers hadn't searched me well enough to find the holocron. But I closed my eyes and focused on daisies in bloom, trying to stay calm. And then suddenly there was a voice-"
He could recite the entire message from memory, but keeps choosing to be selective. "Trust in the Force. Avoid detection. Be secret, but be strong. We will each be challenged: our trust, our faith, our friendships."
He opens his eyes to meet Master Kenobi's gaze. "It's the first time I'd ever heard anyone talking about the Force."
There are key words Ezra uses that ping Obi-Wan like notes of interest on radar, such as this Kanan appearing as a smuggler, that they evidently had a holocron &mdah; that when he uses the word troopers and cell. Building off what he knows creates an incomplete, confusing picture, and that sense of foreboding Obi-Wan has experienced in waves with this boy returns. He gathers up his shields, in an effort not to let this unsettled sensation bleed to where Ezra might be able to pick up on it.
So when Ezra looks back at him, Obi-Wan is watching him levelly — a calm, serene presence both in the flesh and in the Force.
"It seems that you must be living in a very dangerous time indeed," Avoid detection, be secret. If Obi-Wan has recorded a message such as that, which exists at this undetermined time in the future. He smiles, comforting. "Though even now, many don't know about the Force and what it truly is."
"Yes. I know with the war it's dangerous now, too, but - it's different in my time. Kanan finished that mission by taking the risk of revealing himself as a Jedi. And then he chose the danger of offering to train me. And I accepted, knowing it would put a target on my back."
A path that had led, pretty directly, to Kanan's death. He takes a slow sip of his cooling tea, trying not to let that thought spiral, to stay focused on what he was trying to explain.
"Master Kenobi, I trust you, and there's very few people here and now I'd say that about. I just want to be clear that...that's not a hang up in trying to figure out what to say."
Revealing himself as a Jedi. Danger of training. Target on my back. Each successive revelation opens the pool of dread tucked safely behind his shields. He can hypothesize from this that Kanan is a pseudonym, because when ever Ezra comes from being a Jedi must be secret. Revealing those secrets would result in death, or worse. He does his level best not to let his mind rush forward with this evidence and create an unthinkable version of the future — but would it be such, when the Dark Side's presence balloons every day across the universe, diminishing the light?
Obi-Wan nods, unlacing his fingers and leaning back in his chair, crossing one ankle over the other. It opens up his body language, inviting Ezra both to go on and to show him Obi-Wan is attentive to what he's explaining.
"It's wise to think before you speak," He praises, then pauses before going on: "And I imagine you understand that whatever you might do or say here will have great ramifications for whatever future you come from."
"Exactly. Assuming changing anything here and now is possible, all the advice I ever got about being cautious about acting on a vision has to apply, right? I can imagine really easily how things could fall out even worse. If - if changing things is even why I'm here."
In retrospect, he probably shouldn't have even spoken the name Kanan Jarrus out loud. He definitely shouldn't say or do anything that connects that name to Caleb Dume.
He swallows hard. "If there's even a reason, exactly. I felt like the Force was guiding me to go through that portal...." He trails off, uncertain.
He's certainly aware he's made mistakes in interpreting visions before.
Watching him, Obi-Wan wonders his old master would make of this situation. He was a firm believer in the Force and it's intent, the old prophecies and the bits of truth in legend. Meeting a Jedi from an undetermined future that has traveled back, citing the Force's will has guided him, would be the sort of riddle he would have loved. It would have drove Obi-Wan up the wall.
But he's seen some strange things over the last thirty-some-odd years. This encounter certainly ranks up at the top of that incomplete list.
"Yes, visions are tricky business," He agrees, because it was never certain what was a dream and what was true prophecy. "But I think the difference here is that visions do not literally send you to another point in time where alterations can be made." Lifting one hand, he strokes the taper of his beard. "If you aren't here to change something, then I can't imagine why else the Force might have guided you into that portal."
"I've had visions I wanted to believe where guiding me to help people or change something, but in retrospect they were more...guiding me towards something I needed to understand. And I've had visions manipulated by a Sith trained Dark Sider."
Does Master Kenobi know anything about Maul, he wonders. He doesn't know how far back Maul's quest for revenge stretches, or when it started.
"So yeah. Tricky is one way to put it." He sighs. "If nothing else...the Sith can't be allowed to use the temple on Lothal to manipulate time. Maybe the point is to show me the stakes."
His eyes narrow as Ezra goes on. There were stories, of course, of the Sith's ability to interview with visions and dreams — but this is the first time he has met someone who can confirm this information as true. Before the appearance of Maul no Sith had been met or seen for a thousand years, much of their power in the Dark Side was as shrouded in mystery as that side of the Force itself. Even if he learned nothing else from this boy, that alone was worthy of noting and reporting to the Council.
Obi-Wan nods along, agreeing that all of these theories are possible. If it was indeed showing him the stakes, then maybe the fact Obi-Wan found him was also not a coincidence. He smiles.
"Maybe so. Either way I believe this means we'll have to talk about visiting Lothal. If not just to shore up our presence there, then to try and get you home."
He watches those expressions flicker across Master Kenobi's face, and gives a small smile back.
"So, first Coruscant. And consult with the Council. And then, if they agree, Lothal?" Then he frowns. "How...secure will a meeting with the Council face to face be?"
"Like I said, I trust you. But-" He grimaces. "Some of the Darksiders I've faced used to be Jedi. I don't even know who all is on the Council." And then sighs.
"Most of the time, when I asked Kanan about how things were when he was a Padawan, he'd say something about how everything was different now. That there was just us, and the Force. Ahsoka was a little more willing to talk about the past, when she was around. Anything about how things work at the Coruscant Temple or - I don't know - all the rules and expectation people just know when they grew up somewhere - probably best to assume I don't know."
It's a sound strategy for the time being, but Obi-Wan has been on the frontlines long enough now to realize that the best laid plans are always up for debate. One cannot account for everything, no matter how hard they try, not even the droids they fight against. But this framework is a starting point, and the direction is better than nothing.
What isn't a happy revelation is the way it sounds like more Jedi have become Darksiders. It was one thing to be faced with people like Maul, or Ventress, who had never been on the side of light insofar as he could tell — but the thought that others had followed Dooku into the Dark was a chilling. Obi-Wan weighs his next question carefully. What Ezra says to him could be damning, but he must remind himself that these things can be changed. All futures could be changed.
"Do you now their names? Those former Jedi working for the dark side."
Ezra is silent for a second, very reluctant to specify.
"They usually use titles or wear masks, or both. I know one. The Sith Master's right hand, because I know someone who was close to them, before. I'm...almost certain they haven't embraced the Darkside and the Sith, yet. They'd have to hiding it really well."
Surely Ahsoka or Obi-wan, or someone, would have had some clue? But then-
"Or maybe I'm wrong. The Master is already hiding in plain sight."
The more he teases out of Ezra the more difficult it becomes to keep his curiousity down. Obi-Wan has always been weak to learning, something that never ceased to irritate his former padawan that would much prefer to be constantly on the move. But if Ezra could have said anything to pull the final string on Obi-Wan's attempts at self governance, it's this: The Master is already hiding in plain sight.
His whole demeanor seems to cloud over, because there's weight to those words that hasn't existed up to this point. Something heavy in him that the Force brings his attention to, as though to whisper pay attention. Obi-Wan leans forward, looking hard into Ezra's face.
"You mean to say you know who the Sith Master is?"
"He doesn't publicly call himself Sith or any sort of Force user, and I've never been anywhere near him, personally. But Maul alluded to him being his former master. Darth Vader and other Darksiders obey him. He's ordered temples torn apart and Jedi hunted. It's the only conclusion that makes sense."
The name Darth Vader means nothing to him, but something about the turn of those syllables feels like a klaxon going off. Like he should know it, like it's important. What it suggests, though, is that this Master is cycling through apprentices. It isn't Dooku, or Maul, or Ventress — it isn't this Vader. What is of import, though, is the hesitation in Ezra's answer. The way he carefully tiptoes around the answer.
It's with a sinking sensation that Obi-Wan says: "I've already met him, haven't I?"
This is the one thing that Obi-Wan cannot let go. The potential good of knowing this information, the name they've been chasing for years outweighs the potential negative consequences.
Ezra shakes his head, but he's trying to think it through.
He isn't terribly worried about his own life, really, but what will happen if Master Kenobi doesn't believe him? Will the Jedi assume he's part of a Separatist plot and hand him over to someone? He imagines they'll assume he'd get sort of due process, but Ezra can't trust that. In Republic custody, beyond the Jedi, he's probably as good as in Palpatine's hands. And at the point, he's pretty sure dead is the kinder option.
And if Master Kenobi does believe him, then what? Is there any way to move against Palpatine that might not end up even worse?
"If I tell you - I'm sure you'll see immediately a lot of ways acting on that knowledge could be dangerous, but not all of them," Ezra tries to explain, rapid fire. "You can't just ask the clone troopers for help. I know they're good men. Captain Rex taught me about how to be an officer, but even him I can't trust here and now, because there's no guarantee they'll be able to fight their...their programming."
He hates using that word, but it was the one Rex had used.
Should he bring up Master Skywalker, specifically, as another potential source of betrayal? No, that can wait, he decides.
It is a successful diversion, and though Obi-Wan isn't entirely sure if Ezra is doing it on purpose — choosing between demanding the knowledge of the Sith Lord and the more immediate issue involving his men, Obi-Wan focuses on the latter.
His brow tightens, coming down harshly over his eyes. His gaze flicks over Ezra's shoulder to the two men posted near the doorway, and though neither of them move he knows better than to think they aren't eavesdropping.
"What do you mean their programming?" He knows what the Kaminoans told him, of how their DNA was altered to make them more submissive, but the way Ezra says this makes him think the boy means something else entirely.
"That's the word Rex used. Kanan used the word 'chips'. I don't know exactly how it worked," Ezra admits.
"I know Rex did get around it, somehow. I'm pretty sure Ahsoka helped him. That they helped each other and that's why...why they were ok. Around for me to know them. Kanan had a hard time trusting him, at first, and the few others of his brothers we met. His experience was that the people he'd trusted to watch his back turned on him and his master without warning."
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"Uncertain, still," he admits, easily enough. "I don't know what's uh, wise, or safe to tell you about from my time. Partly because there's so much I don't know about this time."
That he's on a Star Destroyer isn't helping. He was vaguely aware that the general design was Republic before it was Empire, but it really is eerily similar to the ships he's used to seeing as the enemy.
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He takes a seat across from the boy, knees splayed comfortably as he braces on his thighs and laces his fingers together.
"Well given that nothing I tell you should really be news, is there something you want to ask me?" There's an almost teasing lilt to his voice as his eyebrows hike up, gently trying to coax Ezra out of his defensive shell.
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He's been able to confirm a few basic facts, like - Palpatine is already Chancellor. What can he possibly do that won't make things play out as bad, or worse, when the Sith already have that much power? When all the troopers around him - around so many of the Jedi - are unwilling tools? He doesn't even really know how the chips the Kanan and Rex mentioned in passing work. Just that when the Purge had started, the clones were programmed to follow orders.
He thinks Ahsoka and Rex had managed to save each other somehow, but he'd never asked details about that, either.
But - there's a place to start. Although, he doesn't even know when she became Master Skywalker's padawan, much less when she left the Order, or why.
"Do...you know Ahsoka Tano?" he asks, hopefully.
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"Yes, she's currently deployed with her Master, Anakin Skywalker." There's obvious warmth in his voice and expression talking about them. "With luck we'll all rendezvous back in Coruscant not long after our battalion arrives. Have you met Ahsoka?"
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"Yes. She taught me a little. Enough not to lose a limb the first time I needed to wield two 'sabers in real combat," Ezra tells him, breaking into a small smile.
"She ran missions alongside me and my master for a while. Saved my life more than once."
His smile drops away at the memory of that last time she'd done that. He doesn't say 'we're pretty sure she's dead', or 'I think the Sith that killed her may have been her former master'.
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"I'm not sure there is a better person you could learn Jar'Kai from outside of Coruscant," She's become incredibly adept at the form, something he can attest to himself having sparred with her as her skills have grown. "I have a feeling she's much younger than you will remember now."
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"I recognized you because Kanan had a recording of you on a holcoron. And-" He sorts through how to tell this story, but it feels strangely important to get across. "I was an orphan on Lothal. Kanan and the rest of the team he was working with, I thought they were just smugglers and I tried to steal a box of the shipment, thinking it was something valuable. Got caught up in their mission and they brought me aboard their ship. I felt the holcron, went looking for it, and took it. The mission went even more sideways from there-"
He closes his eyes and breathes out. "I was alone in a cell, thinking there was no way these people I'd just met would come back for me. The troopers hadn't searched me well enough to find the holocron. But I closed my eyes and focused on daisies in bloom, trying to stay calm. And then suddenly there was a voice-"
He could recite the entire message from memory, but keeps choosing to be selective. "Trust in the Force. Avoid detection. Be secret, but be strong. We will each be challenged: our trust, our faith, our friendships."
He opens his eyes to meet Master Kenobi's gaze. "It's the first time I'd ever heard anyone talking about the Force."
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So when Ezra looks back at him, Obi-Wan is watching him levelly — a calm, serene presence both in the flesh and in the Force.
"It seems that you must be living in a very dangerous time indeed," Avoid detection, be secret. If Obi-Wan has recorded a message such as that, which exists at this undetermined time in the future. He smiles, comforting. "Though even now, many don't know about the Force and what it truly is."
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A path that had led, pretty directly, to Kanan's death. He takes a slow sip of his cooling tea, trying not to let that thought spiral, to stay focused on what he was trying to explain.
"Master Kenobi, I trust you, and there's very few people here and now I'd say that about. I just want to be clear that...that's not a hang up in trying to figure out what to say."
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Obi-Wan nods, unlacing his fingers and leaning back in his chair, crossing one ankle over the other. It opens up his body language, inviting Ezra both to go on and to show him Obi-Wan is attentive to what he's explaining.
"It's wise to think before you speak," He praises, then pauses before going on: "And I imagine you understand that whatever you might do or say here will have great ramifications for whatever future you come from."
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In retrospect, he probably shouldn't have even spoken the name Kanan Jarrus out loud. He definitely shouldn't say or do anything that connects that name to Caleb Dume.
He swallows hard. "If there's even a reason, exactly. I felt like the Force was guiding me to go through that portal...." He trails off, uncertain.
He's certainly aware he's made mistakes in interpreting visions before.
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But he's seen some strange things over the last thirty-some-odd years. This encounter certainly ranks up at the top of that incomplete list.
"Yes, visions are tricky business," He agrees, because it was never certain what was a dream and what was true prophecy. "But I think the difference here is that visions do not literally send you to another point in time where alterations can be made." Lifting one hand, he strokes the taper of his beard. "If you aren't here to change something, then I can't imagine why else the Force might have guided you into that portal."
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Does Master Kenobi know anything about Maul, he wonders. He doesn't know how far back Maul's quest for revenge stretches, or when it started.
"So yeah. Tricky is one way to put it." He sighs. "If nothing else...the Sith can't be allowed to use the temple on Lothal to manipulate time. Maybe the point is to show me the stakes."
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Obi-Wan nods along, agreeing that all of these theories are possible. If it was indeed showing him the stakes, then maybe the fact Obi-Wan found him was also not a coincidence. He smiles.
"Maybe so. Either way I believe this means we'll have to talk about visiting Lothal. If not just to shore up our presence there, then to try and get you home."
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"So, first Coruscant. And consult with the Council. And then, if they agree, Lothal?" Then he frowns. "How...secure will a meeting with the Council face to face be?"
"Like I said, I trust you. But-" He grimaces. "Some of the Darksiders I've faced used to be Jedi. I don't even know who all is on the Council." And then sighs.
"Most of the time, when I asked Kanan about how things were when he was a Padawan, he'd say something about how everything was different now. That there was just us, and the Force. Ahsoka was a little more willing to talk about the past, when she was around. Anything about how things work at the Coruscant Temple or - I don't know - all the rules and expectation people just know when they grew up somewhere - probably best to assume I don't know."
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What isn't a happy revelation is the way it sounds like more Jedi have become Darksiders. It was one thing to be faced with people like Maul, or Ventress, who had never been on the side of light insofar as he could tell — but the thought that others had followed Dooku into the Dark was a chilling. Obi-Wan weighs his next question carefully. What Ezra says to him could be damning, but he must remind himself that these things can be changed. All futures could be changed.
"Do you now their names? Those former Jedi working for the dark side."
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"They usually use titles or wear masks, or both. I know one. The Sith Master's right hand, because I know someone who was close to them, before. I'm...almost certain they haven't embraced the Darkside and the Sith, yet. They'd have to hiding it really well."
Surely Ahsoka or Obi-wan, or someone, would have had some clue? But then-
"Or maybe I'm wrong. The Master is already hiding in plain sight."
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His whole demeanor seems to cloud over, because there's weight to those words that hasn't existed up to this point. Something heavy in him that the Force brings his attention to, as though to whisper pay attention. Obi-Wan leans forward, looking hard into Ezra's face.
"You mean to say you know who the Sith Master is?"
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"He doesn't publicly call himself Sith or any sort of Force user, and I've never been anywhere near him, personally. But Maul alluded to him being his former master. Darth Vader and other Darksiders obey him. He's ordered temples torn apart and Jedi hunted. It's the only conclusion that makes sense."
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It's with a sinking sensation that Obi-Wan says: "I've already met him, haven't I?"
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"I don't know how well you think you know him, personally. But you all know him."
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"Ezra, you must tell me."
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He isn't terribly worried about his own life, really, but what will happen if Master Kenobi doesn't believe him? Will the Jedi assume he's part of a Separatist plot and hand him over to someone? He imagines they'll assume he'd get sort of due process, but Ezra can't trust that. In Republic custody, beyond the Jedi, he's probably as good as in Palpatine's hands. And at the point, he's pretty sure dead is the kinder option.
And if Master Kenobi does believe him, then what? Is there any way to move against Palpatine that might not end up even worse?
"If I tell you - I'm sure you'll see immediately a lot of ways acting on that knowledge could be dangerous, but not all of them," Ezra tries to explain, rapid fire. "You can't just ask the clone troopers for help. I know they're good men. Captain Rex taught me about how to be an officer, but even him I can't trust here and now, because there's no guarantee they'll be able to fight their...their programming."
He hates using that word, but it was the one Rex had used.
Should he bring up Master Skywalker, specifically, as another potential source of betrayal? No, that can wait, he decides.
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His brow tightens, coming down harshly over his eyes. His gaze flicks over Ezra's shoulder to the two men posted near the doorway, and though neither of them move he knows better than to think they aren't eavesdropping.
"What do you mean their programming?" He knows what the Kaminoans told him, of how their DNA was altered to make them more submissive, but the way Ezra says this makes him think the boy means something else entirely.
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"I know Rex did get around it, somehow. I'm pretty sure Ahsoka helped him. That they helped each other and that's why...why they were ok. Around for me to know them. Kanan had a hard time trusting him, at first, and the few others of his brothers we met. His experience was that the people he'd trusted to watch his back turned on him and his master without warning."
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