[She's been sitting on this for some time, but now that they're on easier terms she feels....emboldened? Less like she'll be told it's none of her business.
Even if it very much isn't.]
Now that we're not being chased by dinosaurs or led around in complete darkness, do you have a moment?
now it reads "nefelibata is typing" for an ungodly five minutes. exactly how broad should she be making her inquiry...]
I had some questions about the Jedi code, and its particulars about attachments. I know that they adopt trainees quite young, due to the nature of developing Force powers, but is there an ulterior motive? Do the recruits still remember enough of their family to feel attached to them?
[...okay maybe too broad but she'll work her way there]
[ He isn't all the surprised. This is what most people question. ]
To understand the practice I must tell you where it came from.
It is not only the Jedi who wield the Force; there are also the Sith. They are obsessed with only power, and will do anything to achieve it, no matter what evil things they must do.
Fear and anger and resentment of losing what you are attached to leads to the Sith and the dark side of the Force. This we learned millennia ago, during a war that nearly destroyed the galaxy between the Jedi and the Sith. To avoid history repeating itself, it was agreed bringing younglings to the Order before they have matured enough to form attachments would be best.
So to answer your question: they may remember their families, and perhaps feel an attachment to them - but not one that they have learned to be afraid to lose.
[ Ah. Does she know about Padmé? Did Anakin tell her? ]
It would be discouraged if that attachment went against their vow to the Jedi, and their duty. A Jedi should be able to act without their personal feelings clouding their vision.
In theory, anyway. It is not easy, and the Jedi are no jailers. Should someone feel their path lies elsewhere, they can make the choice to leave the Order.
[pls if he told her about Padme she'd be too busy crying with Olivia Rodrigo on blast to text him]
Then how is a troublesome attachment defined? Is it as easy as having a person that can be used as leverage against you? Or more that that person may be a maladaptive influence?
[Frankly speaking, this last bit sounds rather...cultish. Everyone swears you're allowed to leave, but if you're raised in such a way that you know no other life, have no attachments outside the enclave?
You misunderstand. It is not about good or bad influences, or about leverage. A Jedi should recognize all things pass, even the people in our lives. We should acknowledge the fear we might have and be able to let it go. If an attachment is such that this is no longer possible, then it would be, as you say, troublesome.
I would not say common, but it has happened. My Grandmaster was one such person.
[ not the best example, given how he fell, but the one closest to him. Ahsoka, after all, never had a choice, even if she chose not to return. ]
[All right so slightly less seedy than she was imagining, which is good, but that's the principle. Not the practice. Plenty of venerated institutions committed acts that should violate their dogma, but fit their own warped agenda. She doesn't think Obi-Wan would move to plot against Anakin, but she doesn't truly know him. Doesn't know their culture, or their peers.]
So its similar to Buddhism or Catholicism. I suppose that was the comparison I should have been making in the first place.
[Not to Ultimate Despair, or its Remnants, or even the Warriors of "Hope". Those were much more openly underhanded, and definitely meant to keep no kind of peace.
But now she has no more bush to beat around. Once again the follow up takes a ponderous minute.]
I spoke with Anakin a bit about his mother. He said something that seemed to imply he was made to ignore her condition, or plight.
He didn't give me specifics. All I know is that something happened to her and he wasn't able to help.
Obi-Wan looks down at this message for a small measure of time, the words searing permanently into his brain. Shmi, perhaps his biggest failure in regards to Anakin. He had never even met her. ]
[A guilty twinge pricks her conscious as she waits for the next missive. Maybe this is a sore spot between them. Really, she's just a nosy, horrible, selfish little girl, too curious about a handsome man for her own damn good.
She just about whips off a hasty "forget i asked" when he pulls through. Toko frowns. The prickling only makes gains as she types.]
He didn't tell me much. He said she was in danger but was convinced by someone else he shouldn't do anything about it. I thought that person might be another Jedi, or a council of them.
Also this isn't me accusing you before you get any ideas. I don't think he'd look so happy to see you all the time if you were involved.
[ The last bit of her message is enough to make him laugh, or maybe cry. There is something about the way an outside perspective can snap things into clear focus, because she has a point. And maybe Anakin does still hate him, even just a little, for what happened, despite the trust between them. Obi-Wan could hardly blame him. He doesn't think he has the courage to ask. ]
Anakin was having nightmares about his mother. I believed them to only be bad dreams and advised him as such.
Force visions are rare, even among the Jedi. This turned out to be one of those rare cases.
Toko has a real talent for twisting the knife. Except usually she's doing it on purpose, and to people she wants to hurt.
She can't keep measuring things by the metrics of her own world. Far-fetched as visions may be, they're more plausible than most things she's witnessed with her own eyes. They supposedly existed back home. But unlike that idiot clairvoyant, Anakin had a premonition that actually came true.
Can Obi-Wan be held responsible for being skeptical? Anyone would assume the same. Wouldn't they? She doesn't want to discount Anakin's pain, not when he broke down in front of her. That loss is still cleaving him in two. But the reason for it...
Wouldn't she have done the same? She didn't believe Komaru about the chairman's ghost. Didn't believe this place was real. Didn't believe the conductor meant them well. Wrong, on every account.]
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to be callous.
[She's never been one for apologies, but she has to try. This doesn't feel like enough.]
if there was little precedence for it then I don't think you can consider yourself at fault.
I had expected some conspiracy from a third party. I'm sorry for prying.
[ It may have been his mistake but Anakin was the one to suffer the consequences. Enough so that in speaking to Toko about it, years later, she had drawn a conclusion hypothesizing harmful intent. It may rip his heart in two, but that does not matter. What is done is done, and he will simply have to tend to the injury on his own. ]
Dreams are fickle things, and the future is constantly in flux. Acting on them can sometimes lead to the very thing they are showing us.
Regardless, he was in my care, and I knew his power was different. I should have done better. It is not a mistake I intend to make again.
[ These dreams of Padmé... they are the problem, now. This conversation makes him consider that he will need to devise a way for his pre-revelation self to believe it when Anakin goes to him after he leaves this train. ]
[She knows better than to take that at face value, but it's safest to agree and leave it be.]
There's not much evidence for it in my home, but most mythology follows the same logic regarding prophecy.
Not that I'm relegating what happened to old folklore, but perhaps pursuing that dream would have led her to die in a different way. If fate is something real in your world, enough so to give tangible visions, then changing it might be more difficult than it seems.
I don't have any useful experience with this stuff. I just know you would have never endangered either Anakin or his mother purposefully. That's your truth. Not your past mistakes.
Edited (You ever look back and absolutely loathe a tag you sent) 2021-11-12 21:08 (UTC)
[ There's a strange sort of comfort that comes in her response, even if they might be platitudes. He had never told anyone about what happened, not even the Council, and he knows that even he does not know the whole truth of it. He has never pressed. He has only ever carried the grief of his mistakes. He cannot pretend that he believes all of this to be his fault, part of him knows it is not, but his key involvement is what makes all the difference.
Obi-Wan, usually so good with words, finds himself at a loss. She is correct, he never would have endangered either her or Anakin, not if it was within his power to do something about it. But even so, nobody has ever pointed it out so plainly; acknowledged it as fact outside Obi-Wan's own thoughts. ]
I have only ever wanted him to be happy.
[ Once it is sent, though, he wishes he could take it back. It seems too honest. He moves on quickly. ]
But you are correct. We cannot let our mistakes define us, we can only learn and do our best not to let them happen again.
[The second half makes her smile. Did she help him? Even a little? She's useless in most respects, and he's very much her senior in several facets. Still. She'd like to think her crumbs of condolences were worth something.]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
@nefelibata, beginning of vacay car probably
Even if it very much isn't.]
Now that we're not being chased by dinosaurs or led around in complete darkness, do you have a moment?
no subject
no subject
now it reads "nefelibata is typing" for an ungodly five minutes. exactly how broad should she be making her inquiry...]
I had some questions about the Jedi code, and its particulars about attachments. I know that they adopt trainees quite young, due to the nature of developing Force powers, but is there an ulterior motive? Do the recruits still remember enough of their family to feel attached to them?
[...okay maybe too broad but she'll work her way there]
no subject
To understand the practice I must tell you where it came from.
It is not only the Jedi who wield the Force; there are also the Sith. They are obsessed with only power, and will do anything to achieve it, no matter what evil things they must do.
Fear and anger and resentment of losing what you are attached to leads to the Sith and the dark side of the Force. This we learned millennia ago, during a war that nearly destroyed the galaxy between the Jedi and the Sith. To avoid history repeating itself, it was agreed bringing younglings to the Order before they have matured enough to form attachments would be best.
So to answer your question: they may remember their families, and perhaps feel an attachment to them - but not one that they have learned to be afraid to lose.
no subject
If there was a Jedi who developed an attachment, would the rest just discourage them from pursuing it, or would they actively attempt to sever it?
no subject
It would be discouraged if that attachment went against their vow to the Jedi, and their duty. A Jedi should be able to act without their personal feelings clouding their vision.
In theory, anyway. It is not easy, and the Jedi are no jailers. Should someone feel their path lies elsewhere, they can make the choice to leave the Order.
no subject
Then how is a troublesome attachment defined? Is it as easy as having a person that can be used as leverage against you? Or more that that person may be a maladaptive influence?
[Frankly speaking, this last bit sounds rather...cultish. Everyone swears you're allowed to leave, but if you're raised in such a way that you know no other life, have no attachments outside the enclave?
Sounds fishy.]
Is it common that Jedi choose to leave?
no subject
I would not say common, but it has happened. My Grandmaster was one such person.
[ not the best example, given how he fell, but the one closest to him. Ahsoka, after all, never had a choice, even if she chose not to return. ]
no subject
So its similar to Buddhism or Catholicism. I suppose that was the comparison I should have been making in the first place.
[Not to Ultimate Despair, or its Remnants, or even the Warriors of "Hope". Those were much more openly underhanded, and definitely meant to keep no kind of peace.
But now she has no more bush to beat around. Once again the follow up takes a ponderous minute.]
I spoke with Anakin a bit about his mother. He said something that seemed to imply he was made to ignore her condition, or plight.
He didn't give me specifics. All I know is that something happened to her and he wasn't able to help.
no subject
Obi-Wan looks down at this message for a small measure of time, the words searing permanently into his brain. Shmi, perhaps his biggest failure in regards to Anakin. He had never even met her. ]
Those were unique circumstances.
What did he tell you?
no subject
She just about whips off a hasty "forget i asked" when he pulls through. Toko frowns. The prickling only makes gains as she types.]
He didn't tell me much. He said she was in danger but was convinced by someone else he shouldn't do anything about it. I thought that person might be another Jedi, or a council of them.
Also this isn't me accusing you before you get any ideas. I don't think he'd look so happy to see you all the time if you were involved.
no subject
Anakin was having nightmares about his mother. I believed them to only be bad dreams and advised him as such.
Force visions are rare, even among the Jedi. This turned out to be one of those rare cases.
no subject
Toko has a real talent for twisting the knife. Except usually she's doing it on purpose, and to people she wants to hurt.
She can't keep measuring things by the metrics of her own world. Far-fetched as visions may be, they're more plausible than most things she's witnessed with her own eyes. They supposedly existed back home. But unlike that idiot clairvoyant, Anakin had a premonition that actually came true.
Can Obi-Wan be held responsible for being skeptical? Anyone would assume the same. Wouldn't they? She doesn't want to discount Anakin's pain, not when he broke down in front of her. That loss is still cleaving him in two. But the reason for it...
Wouldn't she have done the same? She didn't believe Komaru about the chairman's ghost. Didn't believe this place was real. Didn't believe the conductor meant them well. Wrong, on every account.]
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to be callous.
[She's never been one for apologies, but she has to try. This doesn't feel like enough.]
if there was little precedence for it then I don't think you can consider yourself at fault.
I had expected some conspiracy from a third party. I'm sorry for prying.
no subject
[ It may have been his mistake but Anakin was the one to suffer the consequences. Enough so that in speaking to Toko about it, years later, she had drawn a conclusion hypothesizing harmful intent. It may rip his heart in two, but that does not matter. What is done is done, and he will simply have to tend to the injury on his own. ]
Dreams are fickle things, and the future is constantly in flux. Acting on them can sometimes lead to the very thing they are showing us.
Regardless, he was in my care, and I knew his power was different. I should have done better. It is not a mistake I intend to make again.
[ These dreams of Padmé... they are the problem, now. This conversation makes him consider that he will need to devise a way for his pre-revelation self to believe it when Anakin goes to him after he leaves this train. ]
no subject
There's not much evidence for it in my home, but most mythology follows the same logic regarding prophecy.
Not that I'm relegating what happened to old folklore, but perhaps pursuing that dream would have led her to die in a different way. If fate is something real in your world, enough so to give tangible visions, then changing it might be more difficult than it seems.
I don't have any useful experience with this stuff. I just know you would have never endangered either Anakin or his mother purposefully. That's your truth. Not your past mistakes.
no subject
Obi-Wan, usually so good with words, finds himself at a loss. She is correct, he never would have endangered either her or Anakin, not if it was within his power to do something about it. But even so, nobody has ever pointed it out so plainly; acknowledged it as fact outside Obi-Wan's own thoughts. ]
I have only ever wanted him to be happy.
[ Once it is sent, though, he wishes he could take it back. It seems too honest. He moves on quickly. ]
But you are correct. We cannot let our mistakes define us, we can only learn and do our best not to let them happen again.
1/2
[The second half makes her smile. Did she help him? Even a little? She's useless in most respects, and he's very much her senior in several facets. Still. She'd like to think her crumbs of condolences were worth something.]
2/2
Wait are you saying that to turn this back around on me?
[OBI??? Don't dodge with generalities???]